Plato and Qoheleth

At the beginning of Plato’s Republic he starts an argument about justice.  Why should we be just?  Plato’s Socrates argues with allcomers about whther justice is better than scheming or folly.  Eventually justice wins out.  Qoheleth goes through similar reflection in Ecclesiastes.  He sees that this life might be all there is.  However, God has so designed the world that justice, goodness and righteousness are the proper courses of action. 

Unlike Plato, Qoheleth does not make the Rupublic the focus of mankind’s attention.  We do not work hard to bring about a just state that outlasts us.  We look to what God has placed within our reach for this day and we righteously, compassionately, and gratefully focus on making the best of what we already have.

Ecclesiastes 9:1-12

1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a]the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.

   As it is with the good,
   so with the sinful;
as it is with those who take oaths,
   so with those who are afraid to take them.

 3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope[b]—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

 5 For the living know that they will die,
   but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
   and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
   and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
   in anything that happens under the sun.

 7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 11I have seen something else under the sun:

   The race is not to the swift
   or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
   or wealth to the brilliant
   or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.

 12Moreover, no one knows when their hour will come:

   As fish are caught in a cruel net,
   or birds are taken in a snare,
so people are trapped by evil times
   that fall unexpectedly upon them.

Questions

  1. What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
  2. What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
  3. How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
  4. How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
  5. If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001?  How does that affect you today?
Unknown's avatar

About Plymothian

I teach at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. My interests include education, biblical studies, and spiritual formation. I have been married to Kelli since 1998 and we have two children, Daryl and Amelia. For recreation I like to run, play soccer, play board games, read and travel.
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17 Responses to Plato and Qoheleth

  1. Sandra Tindle's avatar Sandra Tindle says:

    1. Whether they are gifted or not, all people have the same fate awaiting them; death.
    2. God’s people know that they will die, but they don’t know what will happen to them, love or hate.
    3. Many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life because they don’t fully understand God’s power and might, and they forget that He is in control of all thing, and grace is not based on works. There is nothing we can do that will impress God,
    4. ‘Time and chance’ affects godly people today because they do not know how much time they have left in this life, and chances happen to everyone, so godly people should live for God for today, since they don’t know what is going to happen next.
    5. If I had lost someone on 9/11/01, I would have hoped on 9/10/01 that tomorrow would be just like any other day, and that nothing bad would happen to the person or people that I knew. The affects me today because it is a good reminder that we are not in control of the future, and anything can happen at any time, therefore I should live my life to the fullest every chance I get.

  2. Grace Yoo's avatar Grace Yoo says:

    1. Whether a person is gifted or not, death will be awaiting them.

    2. God’s people know that they will die but they do not know what will happen to them.

    3. People these days think that they are saved because they are nice or do good deeds. That is not the case and in Galatians 2:16 it says, “Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ”.

    4. I believe time and chance effect godly people today by helping us to realize that all we do is temporary but we should do everything for God. Our time is limited here and we should use this time well by trying to glorify God.

    5. If I had lost someone on 9/11/01, I would have hoped the day before would be good. I would not worry about tomorrow and would think it would be a normal day. This affects me greatly because it helps me to know that we never know what will happen in the future, whether it is a few seconds later to a few days later. God is in control of our lives and we must live our life to the fullest for God because we do not know what God has in store for us.

  3. Amy Kringle's avatar Amy Kringle says:

    1. What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
    All people will die.
    2. What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    We know that one day we will die, but on earth, we do not know if love or hate awaits us.
    3. How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    Because they think that life is works based and do not know that our reward is in heaven.
    4. How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    It effects us because these are things we cannot control. We could not control where we are if a natural disaster happens and we are there, or we cannot really control the chances of sickness like cancer or birth defects.
    5. If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today?
    I would have hoped that I had spent time with that person. I guess for today that means being intentional with the people that I love and knowing that they know we are not always promised a tomorrow.

  4. Liset Adkins's avatar spiritandtruth1128 says:

    1. What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not? Once again, we are told that all people have the same destiny at the end of their life, which is death.
    2. What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know? God’s people know their future, which is the end of their life, however they do not know how it will happen.
    3. How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life? Many people think that only because they are doing the right thing God will HAVE to reward them for it, however God doesn’t owe us anything and serving God is the least we could do for what He did for us. Many people think that they are doing God a favor by serving Him but the reality is that God doesn’t need us, He chose us.
    4. How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today? It kind of pushes us to do as much as we can in an effective and quick manner.
    5. If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today? I honestly cannot imagine what this would be like. I have never lost someone close to me, so I don’t know what it feels like. However, I don’t know if I would want to know what was coming because it would be too painful to try to say goodbye to someone you know you would never see again, until we reach His kingdom that is.

  5. Sokloon Dy (Lizzy)'s avatar Sokloon Dy (Lizzy) says:

    1.they all die.
    2. God’s people know that they will die someday, but they dont know when the day will be.
    3. people think that their “good” works will get them favor from God and blessings in this life. they just dont understand God’s love for them. He blesses regardless of whether we deserve it or not. it is not dependent upon whether we do good works or not.
    4. it affects godly people in that they have to undergo some of the same circumstances that ungodly go through as well. in turn, they sometimes face the same trials.
    5. if i had lost someone on 9/11/01, i would have hoped the day before the event was perfect and filled with love and joy. this would affect me by causing me to live out everyday as if it was my last.

  6. Kerri Klingsmith's avatar Kerri Klingsmith says:

    1. What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
    The same destiny awaits us all.
    2. What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    They know that they will die but they do not know whether or not love or hate awaits them.
    3. How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    Prosperity gospel teaches that if you love God, than all your heart’s desire’s will come true. They believe they will get the big house, the beautiful family and the awesome job if they serve God.
    4. How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    Godly people oftentimes receive the opposite of worldly rewards. Jesus promised that His followers would be persecuted for His name’s sake. Persecution abounds in the world today and many believers are in the fore-front ministering to people that may reject them. Godly people were affected in the recent hurricanes or experience the loss of a loved one. They are not exempt.
    5. If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today?
    I would hope for a fantastic day where we knew we loved each other and that God was sovereign no matter what. It definitely makes me all the more adamant to tell the people in my life just how much they mean to me. The knowledge of God’s sovereignty is firmly planted on my heart. It has to be.

  7. [ED2203-01] HyeJin Lee's avatar [ED2203-01] HyeJin Lee says:

    1.What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
    – They have the same faith: death.
    2.What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    – , For the living know that they will die but no man knows when his hour will come.
    3.How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    – People tend to think that if they serve God a lot, and spend a lot of time serving Him, they think they would get a reward by becoming wealthy, or wiser.
    4.How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    – God gives godly people chances to become wealthy by providing those chances in His time.
    5.If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today?
    – I would treat them well. I would apologize if I did something wrong to that person.

  8. Melisa Guiles's avatar Melisa Guiles says:

    1. They all receive the same fate, which is death.
    2. They know that they are eventually going to do just like everyone else, however, they don’t know when this will happen.
    3. They think that because they serve God nothing bad will ever happen to them or those they love. They think that they will live a long, healthy life without pain.
    4. It makes them realize that this life is short and they need to make the most of the opportunities that the Lord has given them.
    5. I would hope that they day would be full of joy and laughter. I would hope that it would be a day worth remembering for years to come as a day when I was able to show them how much they meant to me. I would want to be sure that I had told them how much I loved them. This changes how I act today, because it reminds me that I don’t know how long my life or the lives around me will last. It should affect how I treat people and it would cause me to want to tell those that I love how much I love them.

  9. Jessica Gentry's avatar Jessica Gentry says:

    1.) Whether one is gifted or not everyone shares the same fate of death.
    2.) God’s people know that they are going to die, however no one knows whether love or hate awaits them, and no one knows when the day of their death will be.
    3.) People think that if they serve the Lord throughout their life then they will be rewarded with prosperity and life will go easily for them.
    4.) Time and chance effects godly people as even godly people don’t know when their time is or what their chances are in this life, even for the godly there are hard times and difficulties that arise, but the Lord still provides in the midst of hard times.
    5.) If I had lost someone on 9/11 then I would have hoped that 9/10 would have been a day spent loving on them, just enjoying their goodness, and praising God for the time that we had had together. Also, I pray that it would have been such that I would have made sure to talk to them about the real meaning of life and the goodness that will be revealed in the Kingdom. That affects me today as it makes me want to focus on loving people more intentionally now as we never know how much time we have with them, and it draws me back to the reality of the Kingdom and the importance of faith in the Lord, reminding me to make that the focus of everyday.

  10. Rebecca Langer's avatar Rebecca Langer says:

    1. They all die.

    2. the living know that they will die, and the dead know nothing.

    3. many people believe in the health and wealth gospel and so they fall into the sad pattern of expecting blessings when they do something “good”.

    4. Godly people serve God knowing that He might by time and chance bring trials into their life in order to teach them a lesson or work in some way.

    5. I think that I would have wanted 9/10 to be a sweet day when I could have spent it with them. I would have been very sad but known that there was a higher purpose for the pain.

  11. Cassie Clark's avatar Cassie Clark says:

    1. Everyone’s destiny is the same.
    2. We can know where we are going, but we do not know the time or day.
    3. It makes sense to people that if they try to be good, they will be rewarded for their work.
    4. We tend to forget that God is in control. He has time in His hands, and nothing happens by chance.
    5. I would have hoped to spend their last day enjoying life and loving one another. It is an encouragement to treat each day with love for the people in my life.

  12. aaron wright's avatar aaron wright says:

    1. they will all die
    2. Christians know theyll die but not when
    3. they work for only temporary material pleasures
    4. we dont know how long this life will last! make the best of it!
    5. i havent but thats a really thought provoking question…I would want to be making every effort i could to bless those around me and make the most out of my day.

  13. Moon [ED 2203;Mon 6:00pm class]'s avatar Moon [ED 2203;Mon 6:00pm class] says:

    1.What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
    they all die
    2.What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    God’s people know they will go to the kingdom, but they cannot know when its going to happen.
    3.How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    many people think that if they serve God, they will get a reward in the life by wealth, health, living long, etc.
    4.How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    we don’t know how much time we have living in this world, therefore we should not miss our chance to serve God whenever it is given to us. However I believe the chance to serve Him by our lives is always the present, right now.
    5.If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today?
    if i had lost someone on 09/11/2001, I would have hoped that I had shared the Gospel to the one.

  14. Melissa Morris's avatar Melissa Morris says:

    1. everyone will meet the same destiny– live will end for each of us.
    2. God’s people know we have certainty of life after death– no one else knows that same certainty.
    3. honestly, i think all of us think that at some point in our lives. i know i used to.
    4. we know that we only have so much time, but we don’t know how much time we have. so, we take chances and live (in a Godly manner) as well as we can, hopefully.
    5. if i lost someone on 9/11/01, i would’ve tried my hardest to live my life to the fullest the day before. like… we would’ve thoroughly enjoyed each other on 9/10/01, no matter who it was. but there was no way of knowing it, so i imagine that it would’ve been just another day.

  15. Kendalle's avatar Kendalle says:

    1. What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not? Death
    2. What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    They know they will again be with The LORD and not the time.
    3. How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    I think m,any people ..My family believes that and they are secular
    4. How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    It gives them a idea of that fastness
    5. If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? I have no idea !!!!How does that affect you today?

  16. HeeJin,Choi's avatar HeeJin,Choi says:

    1.What happens to all people whether they are gifted or not?
    – Regardless of being gifted or not, the end of everyone’s life is death and face the final judgment before God.
    2.What do God ‘s people know and what can they not know?
    – God’s people know things we have on the earth will not last forever and we will see the end of the earth but we don’t know when it is.
    3.How do many people through the ages tend to think that if they serve God they will get a reward in this life?
    – Many people, even myself expect to get a reward or think that they are eligible to get some blessings from God when serving Him. Then if they don’t see anything pleasing in their life afterward, people sometimes get distressed.
    4.How does ‘time and chance’ effect godly people today?
    – As we are believing in that the end of our life is not something we can anticipate or determine. Thus, godly people value every moment and any chance they have in their lives while worldly people tend to miss out the huge value of time and chances they are given when they are alive.
    5.If you had lost someone on 09/11/2001, how do you hope the day had been on 09/10/2001? How does that affect you today?
    – If I had lost someone precious to me on 09/11/2001, I would have hoped the day was spent sharing all the thoughts and each other’s lives, bringing up old memories regardless of whether they were happy ones or not.

  17. Kristin Goffinet's avatar Kristin Goffinet says:

    1) whether they are are gifted or not, all men will die.
    2) We all know that we are going to die, we just don’t know when we will die.
    3) Many people think that they are going to get rewards from God in heaven for serving him, and some think they will get an easier life on earth as well.
    4) Time can be a chance because we do not know how much time we will be granted on this earth.
    5) I would have hoped that they day before had been an enjoyable, memorable day with that individual that I would not regret. This makes me consider how I am living out every day of my life.

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